Showing posts with label Liberty Civil Defense. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Liberty Civil Defense. Show all posts

Thursday, August 15, 2019

Opuscula

Taurus Model 692
Wheel gun: First look

I RECENTLY BOUGHT A TAURUS USA Model 692 revolver. I traded a Taurus Model 605,

The 692 is unusual, albeit not unique, in that it comes with two cylinders: one for .38 Special and .357 magnum ammunition and one for the much less expensive and usually more available 9 mm.

Translation: I will use the 9 mm on the range and the .38 or .357 as the carry round.

Taurus Model 692 with additional 9mm cylinder

THE FIRST THING I did was RT*M. I also read the manual when I buy a (new to me) car. I used to write manuals so if nothing else I compare “styles.”

The Taurus document is “OK.”

The second thing I did, after thoroughly cleaning the gun with Ballistol®, was to swap cylinders.

It is indeed as easy as “seen on tv” (OK, YouTube). Remove one, install the other. Confirm the newly installed cylinder is locked in place, and it is ready to be fed. The 9 mm cylinder is clearly marked 9mm; the .38/.357 cylinder is marked “.357 MAGNUM.” Both cylinders also are marked, as are the gun’s frame and barrel, with the gun’s serial number.

There ARE differences beyond the ability to easily “swap out” cylinders between the Model 605 and the Model 692. 1, 2

The most noticeable, to me, is the way Taurus secures the weapon.

The old Model 605 had a small key hole near the hammer; insert and turn the provided key, the gun could not be fired.

The new Model 692 comes with a padlock (two keys) and a connecting cable. It looks very much like a short bicycle lock. The cable is to be routed from the lock through the weapon and back to the lock, preventing insertion of ammunition, or in the case of a wheel gun, closing the cylinder. This is a “universal” lock designed to work on all firearms (assuming it is used).

Given that most handgun owners have the guns for home protection, the likelihood that the lock will be used for a gun is minimal. (This scrivener has a gun safe that accommodates my gun and a visitor’s sidearm.)

    Since installing a cylinder is quick and easy, that might seem a good way to make the weapon safe – remove a loaded cylinder and keep it handy. The problem is that the cartridges tend to fall out when the unmounted cylinder is handled. Taurus tells users to remove/install only empty cylinders.

Taurus used to have an industry-standard “lifetime” warranty.

The Model 692 comes with a one year limited warranty that is not transferable.

    Has Taurus lost faith in its Brasilian manufacturing operations? (Most Taurus sidearms are made in Brasilcq; the company has U.S. offices in Miami FL.) Perhaps the “industry standard” has changed.
Taurus proved to me with the old 605 that its “lifetime” warranty is not really all that worthwhile. (Details upon request.) The alternative, I suppose, is to become friends with a local gunsmith.

The 605 held 5 rounds.

The 692 holds 7, BUT there’s a “catch.”

In the old days — before internal safeties — cowboys (and others) carried five rounds in their six-shooters. The gun’s hammer rested on an empty chamber. If the gun was dropped on the hammer, there was nothing under the firing pin to go “bang.”

Perhaps Taurus no longer trusts its internal safety mechanism. Only Taurus knows for sure. It now recommends the empty chamber safety option. In any event, six shots should be enough, especially moving from a five-shooter. (Taurus has been making seven-shot revolvers for a number of years.)

The 692 has a “ported” barrel; that is, there are vents at the end of the barrel to allow gases from the cartridge to escape. ( See image at right) The idea of the ported barrel is to reduce recoil or “kick” from the cartridge. For a .38 (not “+P”) or 9 mm, the recoil is minimal and easily handled by most folks with most sidearms. The recoil of a standard .357 magnum is another matter, and except for the lightweight (50 grain) Liberty cartridges, hurts the hands.

The Model 692 in my gun safe has a 3-inch barrel (vs. the 605’s 2-inch barrel); there also is a 6.5-inch barrel version — not suitable for concealed carry — that due to the additional barrel length and gun weight (2.88 pounds sans ammunition) is said to have even less felt recoil.

One problem, according to my police detective son, is that the ported barrel can injure the shooter if it is held close to the shooter’s body. The flame from the barrel is enough to light up the night. In a self-defense situation, the aggressor should never get close close enough that the 692 user needs to fire the gun from close to the body.

Both the 605 and the 692 come with a Taurus rubber grip; it was comfortable enough on the 605 except when firing 158 grain .357 rounds.

The Model 692, as with most Taurus wheel guns, is SA/DA; translation: SA=Single Action and DA=Double Action. An SA requires the shooter to cock the hammer before pulling the trigger; a DA cocks and drops the hammer in one shooter action. DA guns generally require a stronger trigger “pull” that can take the gun off target. That was the case with the Model 605 and is again with the Model 692. (The 692, being new, requires a very strong pull. The “pull” can be lightened, but there may be unwanted consequences.) SA trigger pull is, as expected, much lighter.

There is a significant difference in (unloaded) weight between the 605 (1.25 lbs) and the 692 (2.19 lbs) – nearly a pound more for the new gun.

The Model 692 has, as does the 605, a fixed front sight, but unlike the 605, a small orange-red tape is applied to the top of the sight.

The rear sight is adjustable; the 605 sight was fixed.

I can understand the need for an adjustable rear sight on the competition-level 6 1/2-inch barrel Model 692, but the 3-inch snubbie for close-quarter (within 20 feet) self defense? Puts me in mind of the old “High Hopes” song3 or the slightly off-color joke about an ant and an elephant. Since it is there, I’ll give it a try, at least with the 9 mm on the range.
At about 2 ½ pounds loaded, the Model 692 may be tiring when practicing on the range.
 
Comparing revolvers and semi-automatics?
What advantages, if any are there to owning a revolver vs. a semi-automatic?
The effectiveness of 9 mm and .38 cartridges are close; .357 offers a little more punch with a heavy bullet.
Revolvers usually are more reliable given routine maintenance. Maintenance is easier and the gun does not, as with a semi-automatic, need any disassembly.
Revolvers are available in 9 mm, but most require moon clips, a drawback. On the other hand, 9 mm range ammunition is relatively inexpensive and carry ammunition usually available for a price no greater than .38 Special. Translation: It costs less to own and use a 9 mm revolver or semi-auto.
Revolvers hold less ammunition. The only time a civilian should be concerned is reloading the gun is at the range. Leave the fire fights to the police.
The Model 692 is a heavy weight at about 2 ½ pounds loaded. Many semi-autos are lighter and carry more cartridges.
While trigger pull varies, getting a cartridge into a semi-auto requires pulling back the slide; this can be difficult for some people. Revolvers do not have a slide.
You can pick up a revolver and easily see if it is loaded; this is not the case with all semi-autos.
While a semi-auto is slightly thinner than a medium to large caliber revolver, there is not a significant difference between a 9 mm semi-auto and a .357 revolver for concealed carry.

Interesting side note: I bought, with some back-and-forth with a Taurus Customer Service Rep (CSR) five additional moon clips (US$9). The price was OK, but the “standard shipping rate” of $8.75 for something that can be mailed via USPS in a standard #9 envelope borders on highway robbery.
The back-and-forth with the CSR proved to me that Taurus USA in Miami FL leaves something to be desired.
Why do I need ten seven-round moon clips? I want to pre-load 10 moon clips (70 rounds) before I set off for the range and its “by the hour” charges.
FOLLOWUP on 21 AUG. Taurus has waived the shipping fee ! I am thinking more kindly toward Taurus' Customer Service.

 

To be continued after a trip to the range.

Other “convertible” revolvers

Ruger Blackhawk .357 Magnum Convertible Revolver, SA only: http://tinyurl.com/y43asxrh

There are other 9 mm revolvers, but none I could find on the WWW other than Taurus and Ruger that came with interchangeable cylinders.


Sources

1. Model 605 specifications: http://tinyurl.com/y3eqbhqo

2. Model 692 specifications: http://tinyurl.com/yxc47ya7

3. High Hopes song: http://tinyurl.com/y5hq8ef4


PLAGIARISM is the act of appropriating the literary composition of another, or parts or passages of his writings, or the ideas or language of the same, and passing them off as the product of one’s own mind.

Truth is an absolute defense to defamation. Defamation is a false statement of fact. If the statement was accurate, then by definition it wasn’t defamatory.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017

Opuscula

Taurus warranty
Not worth paper
Used to print it

Repeated appeals ignored by Customer Support


I OWN A TAURUS M605 5-shot “snubbie.” It’s strictly a self-defense weapon, accurate to about 15 feet.

The 605 fires both .38 and .357 magnum cartridges. (NB). I bought mine second hand — now I know why.

Made in Brasil for Miami FL-based Taurus USA, the M605 has a less than 2-inch barrel and has a five-chamber cylinder. As a self-defense weapon, it should be a good choice, especially when loaded with .357 magnum rounds.

My first born, a police detective, took me to his favorite range when I visited him on Florida’s west coast. I shot about 30 rounds of .38 LRN (range) ammunition. Then, because I wanted him to experience a fast round, I loaded in 5 rounds of Liberty Civil Defense .357 magnum, 50 grain Copper, Monolithic, Hollow-Point. (Liberty’s words.) I fired four shots and he fired the fifth.

When I tried to extract the fired Liberty cartridge cases they wouldn’t budge. We tried to push them out with the snubbie’s extractor rod; no luck.

We waited about 5 minutes. The cases cooled and, apparently, “shrunk” back to their original diameter. We managed to extract the cases.

I complained to Taurus USA in Miami on

    June 17
    June 25
    and July 4.

I tried contacting Taurus USA Customer Support via snail mail (June 17) and via the company web site (June 25 and July 4).

Same result each time: No response. Not by snail mail, not by email.

On July 9th I took my son-in-law to a local range. I fired 20 rounds of .38 LRN and 30 rounds of .357 magnum 158 grain JSP. When I tried to fire the 31st round of .357 magnum the gun’s cylinder locked and the gun would not fire.

A gun that will not fire, or one from which fired cartridge cases cannot be extracted, is useless.

While I never intend to be in a gun fight and need to fire round after round, I would like to be able to shoot as much as I want at the range. (My shooting beyond 15 feet needs much improvement, and the only way to get that improvement is to spend time on the range.)

On July 10th I contacted Taurus USA Customer Support once again via snail mail, with a response deadline of July 21st — plenty of time for my letter to travel the few miles to Miami, be read, an answer composed, and the reply returned via snail mail. (Customer Support also has my email.)

    This is posted at 11 p.m. on July 22; still no ressponse from Taurus.

I discovered that Taurus USA has a bad — and getting worse — reputation when it comes to Customer Support.

The complaints range from no response to customer communications to unconscionably long delays in repairing and returning a Taurus firearm. There are, to be fair, a few people satisfied with Taurus USA’s Customer Support.

There is a lot to be said for Taurus USA products; sadly, there is too much to be said about Taurus USA’s absolute lack of customer support.

Would I buy another Taurus product? Not a chance. The product may be good, but without support, it is not worth my money.

Recapping contact attempts

DateContact MethodResponse
July 17Snail mailNone
June 25Web siteNone
July 4Web siteNone
July 9Snail mailNone



If the links fail to work, see http://tinyurl.com/y82lye4d to learn how to find/access them. It's a Google problem.

NB: “Bullets” are the small bit of material at the end of a cartridge. See the illustration (and article) at http://tinyurl.com/y9svrbyk. I learned this when I ordered bullets on line. I should have known better; I’ve been shooting guns since I was 6 years old. “Pistols” generally are one of the following: revolver, semi-automatic/automatic, and Derringer. Semi-autos and many rifles and some shotguns have magazines which feed cartridges to the weapon’s chamber. Clips feed cartridges to magazines.

LRN=Lead Round Nose bullet type
JSP=Jacketed Soft Point
JHP=Jacketed Hollow Point


 

PLAGIARISM is the act of appropriating the literary composition of another, or parts or passages of his writings, or the ideas or language of the same, and passing them off as the product of one’s own mind.

Comments on Taurus warranty